Cash Dispenser Firmware Update

[ashoori]

We have Personas™ 86 and Personas™ 77 ATMs. Their Cash Dispenser Control Boards are different. Their client is upgraded and changed from OS/2 to Windows (APTRA™ Advance NDC). We hadn’t any problems when they were OS/2, but P86 Machines got some problems since they are changed to Windows. I mean the Note goes out from cassette and goes to Sensor number 3, but instead of continue to Sensor number 4, it retracts and goes to Reject Box. We think that the Control Board’s Firmware should get Update. Because when we use P77 Control Boards, they work well. It is written 2000 on P86 Control Boards since it is written 2002 and 2003 on P77 Control Boards.

Personas™ 86:
NCR2000 (445-0646650) CAD1084

Personas™ 77:
NCR2002 (445-0668250) CAD1159
NCR2003 (445-0673475) CAD1190

Does it mean that they don’t work because their control boards are old?
Can we solve this problem by Updating the Board’s Firmware?
Is there any way to Update them?
What devices should update in upgrading from OS/2 to Windows?
Is it possible to do it Automatically or it is Manual?

[Dan]

You need to know, what type of EPROM is on your dispenser controller board: NID or NID2. Diference- look at the battery.
For NID 2, baterry is the same , like a PC battery.
For each type, there are 2 chips of EPROM with updated firmware.
Maybe you must ask on NCR for these chips.

chip_disp_contr_board.JPG

[ashoori]

They are NID, not NID2.

[ATMtech]

Here are the difference between the two boards.

[Dan]

ashoori Did you ask someone in NCR, about this EPROM for NID?

[ashoori]

Based on the image ATMtech had sent, our Control Board is NID type. Doesn’t this type of Control Board work with APTRA™ Advance NDC? We haven’t had any problems with these boards in OS/2, but now that the ATMs have been upgraded, we are having problems.
Will the problem be solved by upgrading the E²PROMs?
Can this be done from the Supervisory menu and with a Floppy Disk, or do we have to take out the E²PROMs and program them with the Programmer?
I do not have access to NCR technicians. Can you help me to solve my problem?

[ATMtech]

I have a list of NCR EPROM P/N for the NID Controller Boards.

445-0668093
445-0672583 - 009-0019185
445-0676131 - 009-0019295
445-0677149
445-0678003 - 009-0019534
445-0681494 - 009-0020018A
445-0683815 - 009-0020310
445-0685128A - 009-0020755
445-0686359A - 009-0021628
445-0689223B
445-070-6150

[ashoori]

These numbers with 445-0XXXXXX format are obvious to be Part Numbers of the NID Control Boards, but what are the numbers with format 009-00XXXXX? By saying E²PROM P/N do you mean the Part Number of an E²PROM in terms of the manufacturer, or do you mean the version or revisions of the contents inside the E²PROM? If the list only includes Part Numbers, it does not solve our problem, but if it is a Firmware file or if you have the contents of E²PROMs of an NID Control Board, we can program them and see if the problem can be solved or not.

[ATMtech]

The numbers starting with 445- is NCR part numbers that for the vendor part number starting with 009-. Most of the EPROMS on the NID/P86 Controller Boards should have the vendor part number (009) listed and to my knowledge there should be only one EPROM that would need to be replaced if failed or is being upgraded.

I had a similar problem that you are experiencing with an NCR P86 so there are a couple things you can do without replacing your EPROM.
1) Clear NVRAM on the NID Controller Board by following these steps:
- Power down the ATM.
- Set the Dip switch to position 3 & 8 (ON).
- Power up the ATM and wait about 30 seconds (This will clear all configurations on the EPROM).
- Power off the ATM and place the dip switches back to the previous position (Usually all off).
- Power up the ATM and wait until it comes up online.
2) Setting the Singularity
- Put ATM in Supervisor Mode
- (8) Configuration
- (3) Set Device Paramenters
- (3) Dispenser
- (1) Set Dispenser Configuration
- Here you will enter bill size, singularity and pick order.
- Save Configuration, toggle to yes.
- (2) Learn Bill Paramenters
- Cassette Type 1 (40)
- Cassette Type 2 (40)
- Cassette Type 3 (40)
- Cassette Type 4 (40)
- Select the cassette type or all to be learn
- Repeat this 5 times and new configuration will be set to EPROM.

**Another possibility**
If you have a short nose presenter there are 4 single connectors on the harness located near the main timing disc and transport sensors that are probably not used and have a tie wrap holding them in place. One of those connectors needs to be connected or the bills will stop short near the TSEN3 and purge back into the bin. Only connect it if you have a short nose presenter. I forget which one it is so play around with both of them or just connect both of them and it should still work fine.

By the way.
These are not the correct part numbers you gave: Is there another part number on the board, something with a white sticker and can you provide us with and the correct eprom number if the steps I gave you dont work? It should say something like 009-XXXXXX
Personas™ 86:
NCR2000 (445-0646650) CAD1084 - Cant Find Any Info
Personas™ 77:
NCR2002 (445-0668250) CAD1159 - Cant Find Any Info
NCR2003 (445-0673475) CAD1190 - Cant Find Any Info

[ashoori]

NID-DISPENSER-CONTROL-BOARD.jpg

[ATMtech]

There should be 1 or 2white long sticker(s) on the front of the board with a couple of part numbers. Do you have that on yours?

[ashoori]

AS 4450656380 A
SC 4450653534 A

NCR00
009-0017044

NCR00
009-0017045

10 45 01880
SSL

NCR
9-20621

AS-4450656380-A.jpg

Posted after 23 minutes 41 second:
AS 4450668627A
SC 4450653534A

NCR 00
009-0017044

NCR 02
009-0017045

12 33 00216
SSL

NCR 04
009-0019534



Posted after 11 hours 28 minutes 2 seconds:
What I got form your answers is that a Dispenser Control Board, in addition to a Part Number which is inscribed on its PCB, has a Vendor Part Number which is written on a white Sticker; and according to different Vendor Part Numbers, we should install different and proper E²PROMs. If I’m not mistaken, the list you’ve sent to me, says that, for example for a Board with Vendor Part Number of 445-0678003, we must use an E²PROM with the Part Number of 009-0019534.
There are at least 3 Chips on the NID Dispenser Control Board, which only one of them is plugged with a Socket and it could be unplugged easily; while in order to unplug the other two Chips, we have to loosen and open them [they don’t have Sockets and can’t be plugged and unplugged easily].
Does the mentioned E²PROM Part Number is related to that E²PROM which is inside the Socket?


Posted after 10 minutes 7 seconds:
Now, I’ve sent pictures of two different NID Dispenser Control Boards that have similar Part Numbers on their PCBs, but the Part Numbers on their Stickers are different.

When the Part Numbers on the PCB are the same, it means that the PCB design has been the same, so what else can be different between these two Boards, except the E²PROM content? I mean, if the PCB Part Numbers on the two Control Boards are the same, and we exchange the E²PROMs of these two Boards with each other, should it work properly anymore? Isn’t it so? Is there any other Programmable component on the Board, in addition to the E²PROM? If an E²PROM works on another Board, and if its content are read by an E²PROM Programmer and are copied on another Chip, does this new Chip work on the Board? I mean, by looking at this fact, why there exists a list containing all these Part Numbers? Isn’t it true that for each PCB, we should only have content of one E²PROM? Can we program it on one Chip, and then use it? Is it possible for the condition of the DIP Switches to have any effects on the NID Dispenser Control Board performance?

Posted after 6 minutes 9 seconds:

**Another possibility**
If you have a short nose presenter there are 4 single connectors on the harness located near the main timing disc and transport sensors that are probably not used and have a tie wrap holding them in place. One of those connectors needs to be connected or the bills will stop short near the TSEN3 and purge back into the bin. Only connect it if you have a short nose presenter. I forget which one it is so play around with both of them or just connect both of them and it should still work fine.

The Cash Dispensers with Short Nose Presenter are for the Personas™ 77 ATMs, and we don’t have any problems with them; our problem concerns the Cash Dispensers with Long Nose Presenter that work on Personas™ 86 ATMs.

[John Candy]

AS = Assembly (the complete PCB with proms)
SC = Schematic (the schematic for that assembly)
CAD = Computer Aided Design (the artwork of the circuit)

You can use a P86 control board on a P86 or NID presenter and a NID board on a P86 or NID presenter. You must have the correct Eprom installed for the presenter you want to run

009-0019534 = NID prom
009-0020621 = P86 prom

You must program these in a prom programmer. You will need new blank proms as they are not re-programable.

[ashoori]

Do you mean that in addition to two types of Dispenser Control Boards (NID and NID2), there is another type called P86 Control Board? We do not have NID2 model Control Boards, but we have two different Control Boards one of which is installed on Personas™ 86 Dispensers, and the other one is installed on Personas™ 77 Dispensers. In addition to fact that the Schematic and CAD of these two models are different, another difference is that on P77 Dispenser Control Boards, there is a Connector which does not exist on P86 Control Boards. Is one of our two control boards a P86 Control Board and the other NID Control Board?

[John Candy]

The P86 control board has the cash enable switch at the top of the board and the NID control board has the cash enable switch on the side of the board. It should also be printed on the PCB the type that it is. It should be wrote by the processor just off to the right. I can see it in your earlier pictures and also that the cash enable is at the top so you do have a P86 version.
If you have a NID version then wrote will be New Interior Dispenser. (this is what NID stands for)

[ATMtech]

Just going through the NCR Portal and looking up P/N:4450668627 - PCB-ASSY CONTROL DISPENSER P86 UPPER, this board has been through many revisions. The correcrt part number for this board is 4450734583 and looking at EPROM 0090019534, there is a revision part 0090021628 I receive the following: REPLACES 009-0019295 NEW WILL SERVICE OLD, USE UP. REPLACED BY 009-0020018 NEW WILL SERVICE OLD, SCRAP OLD STYLE (CANNOT UPGRADE OLD).
0090021628
Item Description: IC-CMOS 256K X 8 EPROM P86 CURRENCY DISPENSER BOOT
Prime Item Number: 0090023831
Item Message: REPLACES 009-0020755 NEW WILL SERVICE OLD,

[ashoori]

In P86 Control Boards we are using the following Chips:
Am29F040B, M29F040C, M27C1001, M27C2001, AT27C020
Our P86 Control Boards are from the same model, but it is possible that the Part Numbers on the white sticker might be different, but the following information is written on their PCBs:
NCR2000 (445-0646650) CAD1084
What PROM with what Part Number should be used on these Control Boards, and do you have the contents of the PROM so that we can program a PROM and test it?

Posted after 58 minutes 8 seconds:

(CANNOT UPGRADE OLD)

I understood from your explanations that we have two types of Control Boards: P86 Boards and NID Boards, and our problem is specifically with P86 Boards. NID Boards are working well, and have no problems. You had written “CANNOT UPGRADE OLD” and I did not understand if you meant that the P86 Boards are not upgradable or if you meant something else. Now our problem is that the P86 Boards are not working properly, and after passing Sensor 3, instead of being Dispensed the Bank Notes are Retracted, and go to Reject Box. Is there a way to upgrade these Control Boards?

[ATMtech]

Because each country is different, its hard to determine whats the correct EPROM for your board. I have 4 NID PCBA's in my hand with different part number and EPROM numbers. Looking up one of those part numbers on the NCR website there has been many revisions with new part number as well EPROM part numbers. There has also been many upgrades on the P86 presenters such as parts, sensors eprom and board updates.
The correct part number for your boards is located on the white sticker in front of the board not the engrave part number.
* One thing I noticed that we have on our NID Controller boards that you might not have is a turnaround shunt on pin 4, in the ICS connector (located near battery on top edge of PCBA). I am not sure what exactly this is for but all NID controller boards we have come shipped with this configuration.
* What kind of motherboard are you using, PELE, PELLII, PIVAT? Check your BIOS and Dipswitch / Jumper settings.
* If you said everything worked fine prior upgrading windows, I would imagine you would need a updated controller board with the correct eprom or try buying an update EPROM since they are very cheap around 20 Euros or 12.00 US dollars.
* If you have a hard drive with the OS/2 image I would also try the following 2 things:
1) Go into the program files, NCR Aptra folder, CDM and copy those files to the newer hard drive with the APTRA NDC software
2) Create a virtual machine image of the OS/2, installed the image on the new software with VMware and run both OS on the same hard drive to see whats going on. Remember os/2 is obsolete and NCR runs most of all their programs on win XP and now moving to windows 7.

[ashoori]

Mother Board: PELE II

Posted after 20 hours 33 minutes 52 seconds:
Now, I have completely noticed that we have two types of Control Boards: P86 Boards and NID Boards. NID Broads have no problems and we have only problems with P86 Boards. Now, what is the solution for it? Shall we solve the problem by purchasing a new PROM for each board? Should only one PROM be changed on each board or some other components should also get updated? Is this PROM the very PROM which is inside the Socket? I have not seen any links in NCR site to be able to find an appropriate Part Number for PROM by giving the Part Number on the White Sticker. Is there still a link or a table for doing this? Or if I send the Part Numbers of the Control Boards, do they send the appropriate Part Numbers for me? What sources do you suggest for buying the PROMs? Instead of buying the PROM itself, isn’t it possible for me to buy the file inside it and the seller emails it for me after receiving money and then I will program it here or not?

[Dan]

we have only problems with P86 Boards. Now, what is the solution for it?

Try to contact NCR and buy PROM (non-programable) chips for yours 86 dispenser controller board.They are not expensive.